my car accident yesterday. bummer!!!!

gtfpv · 19-09-2005, 12:49 AM

well yesterday at 6.20 am (saturday) i was drivint to work in my EL FUTURA. not the gt . i was in the M5 motorway tunnel i was in the right side lane just exiting the tunnel doing 70 to 75 km/hr uphill. it was sprinkling and the road was wet . as you exit the tunnel you are travelling up hill on a left hand bend . i was in the right lane and had a distance of about 4 car lengths to the car in front .to my left was a car travelling the same speed as me about 1 car length in front of me.he was tailgating a high truck .anyhow the car in the left lane accelerated and changed lanes right in front of me obstructing my view ahead as he changed lanes he braked for a split second i assumed the traffic was slowing ahead and started to brke too but to mysurprise inoticed he was slowing quite fast so we'd just exited the tunnel so the road became from dry to wet,oh no trffic jam i was on the brakes already but because he had cut in front of me no room to stop he's wheels locked up so did mine. i dont know how but for somereason his car was hauling up faster than mine his car xf . my car el with abs and tyres almost new . go figure anyhow no where to go now i braced for impact and hit the back of his car at about 40 kms an hour his car went airbourne and to the left back in to his lane and straight into a concrete wall and my car stopped about 1 metre from the car that was origionally in front of me as would have if he didn't change lanes. no one was hurt . i nice muslum woman was broken down in this right lane and standing on the road. becuase my car being the 3rd one back from this one knocked the 2nd one to the left the woman was not hit . i couldnt believe no one was hurt . both my car and his needed to be towed away his was mashed front and back write off . mine about $4000 dollars i'd say or maybe write off.( value 7200) my insurance company is queerying who is at fault on this one. what do you think .?????
he cut in front of me and had to suddenly brake hard causing a collision . i had a safe distance to the car infront of me and he cut in . there was nothing i could do to avoid this.
i have always kept a more than reasonable distance to cars in front of me as a result of rear ending someone 20 years ago as a p plater. never had an accidnt since .but people in traffic always change lanes and fill the gap .
now my method of reasoning has failed me completely keeping a safe distance behind the car in front . has brought me down just as much chance of having an accident as a tailgater. spewing .

LUXO_8 · 19-09-2005, 12:53 AM

unfortunatley, although it sucks, you'll most likley be found at fault in this one, you hit the guy in the rear, even though he cut in on you.

damn mate, at least it wasnt the GT!

MITCHAY · 19-09-2005, 12:54 AM

If you overtake someone you have to have the room to do so. Obviously he did not therefore his fault. You might have a bit of trouble proving it though.

Dezza · 19-09-2005, 01:00 AM

That is rotten luck. Sorry to hear it. While running into the back of someone would usually be the fault of the person behind, I believe this is an exception to the rule. He shouldn't have dived into the gap, particuarly in those conditions. It annoys the hell out of me when I ensure there is plenty of braking room in front of me, only to have someone think that is an invitation for them to jump in the gap, leaving only a couple of metres (nowhere near enough room to come to a stop). Some people just don't know how to drive. Best of luck with insurance and all that

**Stav** · 19-09-2005, 01:05 AM

There are surveilance cameras in the m5 east tunnel as far as I know. How do you feel mate. I felt ok after a major and couldbnt get out of bed next day..Hope you are fine.

DOC · 19-09-2005, 01:12 AM

You had me worried when i read the title i thought of the GT, as to who is to blame? yep supposed to leave enough room but as he had just jumped into the hole in front and there wasn't enough time / room ( due to cars right behind you ) to move / slow down to make a new gap without causing an accident yourself its a tough call.

It sounds like he was traffic hopping, jumped into the space a little hotter than he expected hit the skids and rest you have written about.

One Drone · 19-09-2005, 01:30 AM

You could win it, but it depends on how well you fight (if you do at all).

The problem is, we're supposed to be watching traffic in front of us and regardless of if it's on the left or right lanes. You're also not supposed to travel along side (or very close) another car as accidents do happen often this way..

Kryton · 19-09-2005, 01:33 AM

this could fall either way really. you **** ended a car which means that you were too close - your fault. (no matter what the reasons)
or the other guy is to blame for cutting in front of you when it wasnt safe.
i hope you have witnesses to testify that your version of the story is correct otherwise i would be expecting to get the balme for it.

pauljh74 · 19-09-2005, 01:48 AM

I'd say the best that would happen is he'd get partial blame and therefore he/his insurance will wear part of the costs, but that would be the lesser part I'd say. I just hope that clown learns that if you cut into people's safety buffer, things like this happen.

I hate it when people cut into gaps big enough for a car or 2, but nowhere near enough for a car to SAFELY merge at 100km/h. If he does it again, I hope he cuts in front of a B Double and becomes a hood ornament on a Kenworth

gtfpv · 19-09-2005, 01:49 AM

i am expecting at fault on this one . although unavoidable . no one stopped as a witness. i told the insurance company to see if it was on camera.it was a horrible situation we were all very unlucky on the day. the car braking down where it did. the bloke changing lanes like that normally wouldn't cause an accident . you see he and my vision was obstructed due to the bend and he was commited the minite he pulled out nothing he could do . this happens every day and most times doesn't turn into an accident . however in saying that . we were all very lucky i didnt get hurt . although i have had a headache for 2 days since. he took a hard hit and was ok . and for somereason his car flew sideways instead of forward int the woman standing on the road . when i lokked up after coming to a standstill the woman was ok the other driver nodded he is ok . and me didn't even feel the impact i was actually elated that it turned out the way it did.
the worst thing was having to report it to the police . we will probably both get charged . and bot have to make claims . or just me or just him . either way i dont want dramas with insurance companies arguing over who is going to pay for it causing time delays.

gtfpv · 19-09-2005, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

I'd say the best that would happen is he'd get partial blame and therefore he/his insurance will wear part of the costs, but that would be the lesser part I'd say. I just hope that clown learns that if you cut into people's safety buffer, things like this happen.

I hate it when people cut into gaps big enough for a car or 2, but nowhere near enough for a car to SAFELY merge at 100km/h. If he does it again, I hope he cuts in front of a B Double and becomes a hood ornament on a Kenworth

i will admit the look he had on his face when his car landed was . ( MAN , WHY DID I DO THAT ). i'll never forget that look.

SB076 · 19-09-2005, 10:35 AM

Unfortunately I think you will find the blame will go to you, I have heard some horror stories (doing a driver education course) of other drivers being cut off then hitting the back of the car that just cut them off and unfortantely they got the blame (regardless who is at fault) The instructor agreed it wasn't right but basically said thats standard procedure (for insurance companies)

On the positive side, no one was hurt and the car can be replaced.

TZENU · 19-09-2005, 10:43 AM

As everyone said you go into the rear of a car, insurance straight away puts you down as the fault.
Unless you were to provide witnesses that can testify that you were cut off.....

I had a guy roll 2 meters down a hill (commo driver that had no idea how to drive manual) and straight into me... And i ended up paying for both cars ....

Deadman · 19-09-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

It annoys the hell out of me when I ensure there is plenty of braking room in front of me, only to have someone think that is an invitation for them to jump in the gap, leaving only a couple of metres (nowhere near enough room to come to a stop).

I hear ya. I spend so much time on the freeways - and when there's heavy traffic - I always allow ample stoping room - and constantly get people just diving in leaving a few meters between the car infront of them, and me... So I back off to leave safe distance - and another person will dive in!! ARRHH!!

gtfpv - bad luck mate, but as has been said - at least it wasn't the GT! Good to hear there were no injuries though - that's the main thing. Cars can always be fixed / replaced..

19-09-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

well yesterday at 6.20 am (saturday) i was drivint to work in my EL FUTURA. not the gt . i was in the M5 motorway tunnel i was in the right side lane just exiting the tunnel doing 70 to 75 km/hr uphill. it was sprinkling and the road was wet . as you exit the tunnel you are travelling up hill on a left hand bend . i was in the right lane and had a distance of about 4 car lengths to the car in front .to my left was a car travelling the same speed as me about 1 car length in front of me.he was tailgating a high truck .anyhow the car in the left lane accelerated and changed lanes right in front of me obstructing my view ahead as he changed lanes he braked for a split second i assumed the traffic was slowing ahead and started to brke too but to mysurprise inoticed he was slowing quite fast so we'd just exited the tunnel so the road became from dry to wet,oh no trffic jam i was on the brakes already but because he had cut in front of me no room to stop he's wheels locked up so did mine. i dont know how but for somereason his car was hauling up faster than mine his car xf . my car el with abs and tyres almost new . go figure anyhow no where to go now i braced for impact and hit the back of his car at about 40 kms an hour his car went airbourne and to the left back in to his lane and straight into a concrete wall and my car stopped about 1 metre from the car that was origionally in front of me as would have if he didn't change lanes. no one was hurt . i nice muslum woman was broken down in this right lane and standing on the road. becuase my car being the 3rd one back from this one knocked the 2nd one to the left the woman was not hit . i couldnt believe no one was hurt . both my car and his needed to be towed away his was mashed front and back write off . mine about $4000 dollars i'd say or maybe write off.( value 7200) my insurance company is queerying who is at fault on this one. what do you think .?????
he cut in front of me and had to suddenly brake hard causing a collision . i had a safe distance to the car infront of me and he cut in . there was nothing i could do to avoid this.
i have always kept a more than reasonable distance to cars in front of me as a result of rear ending someone 20 years ago as a p plater. never had an accidnt since .but people in traffic always change lanes and fill the gap .
now my method of reasoning has failed me completely keeping a safe distance behind the car in front . has brought me down just as much chance of having an accident as a tailgater. spewing .

Mate, that place is notorius for accidents. Next time you drive past that part of the M5 have a look at all the paint rubbed against the walls. Some of them are shockers. I was there on Saturday morning about the same time and was cut off by someone who attempted to merge INTO ME when it joins up with people coming from Brighton le Sans, even after they saw me they kept edging closer into me. I hit the brakes, bit of ABS kicked in as it was drizzling, got back my buffer, merged into their original lane (no traffic on it) went past them with middle finger extended. Thing is they are probably telegraph readers and take ACA as gospel, and probably thought "effing p-platers" as if I have to bow down to them as they are obviously better drivers than me.

Keepleft · 19-09-2005, 12:48 PM

The M5 East tunnels and the road design insofar as right handed exits and entries are a disaster in design, and certainly not compatible with our keep left education at law. The fact the tunnels don't have a 2.0 - 3.0 metre breakdown lane to the left in each direction is also 'negligence in design' in my advocates view. Frankly, the road builders and operators should be sued. One day. (In a case of death, the state can be sued on the basis on 'nervous shock' by survivng members of a family).

Now, the ladies car had broken down, which cars do the bloody things - that we all understand, though it escapes the authorities and planning people that it actually happens. Simply, cars do not break-down near the provided 'bays'!

Anyhow, did she have on her hazard warning lights? (I am not seeking blame per se, but this is important, folk have a responsibility to warn other traffic).

This thread serves, again, as to why folk must buy a warning triangle, a UN/ECE27R type for maximum visibility (See the picture in RTA's Road Users Handbook, Pdf on the web under 'publications'). In this circumstance the triangle would be placed to the 'side' of the affected lane 100 metres or so before the broken down vehicle. The effect then in this circumstance would have been a general slowing down of traffic, rather than the hurried go go - oops scenario.

19-09-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

The M5 East tunnels and the road design insofar as right handed exits and entries are a disaster in design, and certainly not compatible with our keep left education at law. The fact the tunnels don't have a 2.0 - 3.0 metre breakdown lane to the left in each direction is also 'negligence in design' in my advocates view. Frankly, the road builders and operators should be sued. One day. (In a case of death, the state can be sued on the basis on 'nervous shock' by survivng members of a family).

Now, the ladies car had broken down, which cars do the bloody things - that we all understand, though it escapes the authorities and planning people that it actually happens. Simply, cars do not break-down near the provided 'bays'!

Anyhow, did she have on her hazard warning lights? (I am not seeking blame per se, but this is important, folk have a responsibility to warn other traffic).

This thread serves, again, as to why folk must buy a warning triangle, an UN/ECE27R type for maximum visibility (See the picture in RTA's Road Users Handbook, Pdf on the web under 'publications'). In this circumstance the triangle would be placed to the 'side' of the affected lane 100 metres or so before the broken down vehicle. The effect then in this circumstance would have been a general slowing down of traffic, rather than the hurried go go - oops scenario.

If your in the tunnel, and broke down not in one of the bays, would it be advisable to pull out the triangle and place it or sit in the car with the hazards.

parawolf · 19-09-2005, 01:13 PM

As you explain it, it certainly sounds like his fault, however you hit him from behind which is always a hard position to defend from as far as the law goes. Unless the insurance company does a full investigate and gets them to describe all the timings involved between when he first indicated to being in your lane and then got on the brakes.

However what you are likely to find is that the insurance companies will find each other reasonable for the mess, you for hitting him and him for not giving enough room or driving erratically. So you will both have to pay excess.

Keepleft · 19-09-2005, 01:15 PM

ARGONEF wrote: "If your in the tunnel, and broke down not in one of the bays, would it be advisable to pull out the triangle and place it or sit in the car with the hazards".

Action in order: Car fails..

1. Indicate left and move to the left lane if possible.

2 As car slows to a stop, hit the hazard warning lights. Turn OFF any low beam or taillight, a tail light can reduce the signal effectiveness of the hazard lights, despite the wattage difference.

* Use a CB radio's road channel to alert approaching traffic of on-road danger.

3. The driver should exit the vehicle and immediately remove the triangle from the boot and its storage case.

Other passengers remain in the vehicle unless it is safe for them to move to a safe place well away from traffic. An impacted vehicle can be moved many metres forward, so standing near the engine-front of it - is NOT protection.

4. If you carry a 'safety vest' ($10-00), throw it on. (This is a recommended item and action from the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe - Transport Division).

5. Unfold the triangle 'arms' and hold it facing traffic (to aid in your pedestrian safety) whilst walking to set it up, in this case around the 100 metre-step mark, place it TO THE SIDE of the affected lane, NOT smack middle!! The 'legs' are then unfolded.

IF, and only if it is too dangerous to walk back, do not, rather - place the unit on the roof. These devices are meant for 'advanced warning', the further back however the better the result for your vehicle/persons.

6. Walking back to the vehicle; - keep an eye out for approaching traffic, and await the arrival of authorities, this can take minutes to an hour or so.

AutoOne stores now sell a UNECE warning triangle for $22.95, cheap insurance. The Hella unit has the best wind bufetting survivability. Race&Rally at Greenacre in Sydney also carry a UNECE warning triangle.

Avoid LED type - they are toys, ditto cheap $2.99 type rubbish. Your need UNECE quality. Avoid AS3790 type if you can. The Commonwealth would prefer people purchase the UN/ECE version. I expect a change to the Standard in time, and expect a 'State' to require a UNECE version for registration at some stage.

Woz · 19-09-2005, 02:02 PM

History leads me to believe that the accident may be seen as your fault, as you ran into the back of another car.

However, and I apologise in advance if anyone here is offended by common sense, I'd be thinking that if another car has pulled infront of you and jumped on the brakes, it would be their fault.

You can't be blamed for how much of a gap another car leaves you if they pull across.

I always slow a little when changing lanes into a small gap so to create space between me and the car infront. I believe making that sort of effort gives me the right to abuse dickheads who create the dangers that you had to face, GTFPV.

Good luck with working out who gets the blame. And don't stress too much about it all until you actually know what you have to face. My best mate and I were in a car accident last saturday night and all he has done for a week and a half is panic about what trouble he 'might' be in.

big_waity · 19-09-2005, 02:30 PM

There's a whole lot of crap there I didn't read, but, I reckon He's at fault but you may cop it. Just wait and see what happens.

gtfpv · 19-09-2005, 03:12 PM

the more i read and think about it the angryer i am getting . because he in my mind caused this accident no doubt . if i have to take the wrap i hope he does too . otherwise he makes a mistake and i pay for it which is just wrong. in my own personal case the worst that can happen is an excess $500 and the inconveniance of not having a car . but whatabout if it was worse and we got hurt or someone got killed i'd have to live with it for thew rest of my life as if i was guilty.now imagine being an a manslaughter charge for that and the person that cases it gets a replacement car at no cost. i'm getting angrier as i write because this has probably happened to some people .
UPDATE::: THE NRMA are sending me out a incident report to get my story which i have to draw a picture and explained what happened . they have been in contact with the other driver who says he was not at fault . i know he knows he is .even though it wasn't intentional on his behalf . i mean it was a genuine accident and these things happen . what happened was an accident waiting to happen. anyhow i told the nrma now twice to get the video footage and make a decision who is at fault i so hope they do. and i so hope that he is deemed at fault for his part . even if i am too ,

parawolf · 19-09-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

THE NRMA are sending me out a incident report to get my story which i have to draw a picture and explained what happened . they have been in contact with the other driver who says he was not at fault . i know he knows he is .even though it wasn't intentional on his behalf . i mean it was a genuine accident and these things happen . what happened was an accident waiting to happen. anyhow i told the nrma now twice to get the video footage and make a decision who is at fault i so hope they do. and i so hope that he is deemed at fault for his part . even if i am too ,

The catch is to *NEVER* say you are at fault, because that leaves you open to all sorts of legalities. You are not even supposed to show remorse at the scene for what you have caused because that can be construed as guilt or "at fault".

It is for the insurance companies to decide who is at fault and it is your job to provide enough information to allow the 'at fault' be to decided against the other guy.

:

gtfpv · 19-09-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

The catch is to *NEVER* say you are at fault, because that leaves you open to all sorts of legalities. You are not even supposed to show remorse at the scene for what you have caused because that can be construed as guilt or "at fault".

It is for the insurance companies to decide who is at fault and it is your job to provide enough information to allow the 'at fault' be to decided against the other guy.

:

so they take the easiest way out then, rather than look at the facts.i mean dont blame the other guy for changing lanes he wasn't trying to cause an accident but at the same time i dont blame my self as no action of mine caused it . does that make me automatically guilty .i dont say i am at fault the law does.

parawolf · 19-09-2005, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

so they take the easiest way out then, rather than look at the facts.i mean dont blame the other guy for changing lanes he wasn't trying to cause an accident but at the same time i dont blame my self as no action of mine caused it . does that make me automatically guilty .i dont say i am at fault the law does.

Unfortunately this is correct. You are both guilty, you didn't leave enough room after he merged, and him for not taking enough care in the wet, and I bet you will be both lumped with excess payouts. Though if he doesn't have insurance it will be interesting for him to defend his position without an expensive lawyer. If you are both with NRMA, then they would almost definately get you both to pay excess.

SB076 · 19-09-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the more i read and think about it the angryer i am getting . because he in my mind caused this accident no doubt . if i have to take the wrap i hope he does too . otherwise he makes a mistake and i pay for it which is just wrong. in my own personal case the worst that can happen is an excess $500 and the inconveniance of not having a car . but whatabout if it was worse and we got hurt or someone got killed i'd have to live with it for thew rest of my life as if i was guilty.now imagine being an a manslaughter charge for that and the person that cases it gets a replacement car at no cost. i'm getting angrier as i write because this has probably happened to some people .
UPDATE::: THE NRMA are sending me out a incident report to get my story which i have to draw a picture and explained what happened . they have been in contact with the other driver who says he was not at fault . i know he knows he is .even though it wasn't intentional on his behalf . i mean it was a genuine accident and these things happen . what happened was an accident waiting to happen. anyhow i told the nrma now twice to get the video footage and make a decision who is at fault i so hope they do. and i so hope that he is deemed at fault for his part . even if i am too ,

I would be angry too, unfortunately common sense isnt that common - the only thing I know is that usually if you hit someone in the rear the insurance companies always blame you. I dont agree with it, hopefully someone on here works for an insurance company and can shed some light on the subject.

bscampbell · 19-09-2005, 07:37 PM

Didn't read all of this, but can you access the tunnels CCTVs to prove his irresponsible driving?
I'd say probably not, but it's a wonder the insurance companies can't use them for determining who is at fault in car accidents.

chief · 19-09-2005, 09:04 PM

Read it all. I reckon the other car is at fault for dangerous driving. But in experience with and accident my mum was involved in it is unfortuntlely your fault. Here read this:

My mum is at a set of lights stopped stationary not moving at all with a safe distance to the car ahead. A woman with bone marrow cancer in the car behind, legs seize up on the accelerator and hits mum's car in the read at about 80km/h. The car left no skid marks at all, or the sound of screeching tyres. Mum rolls and hits the merc in front. The police try and charge mum because she hit the car in front of her.

It sucks hey.

Lucky it wasn't the GT.

gtfpv · 25-10-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

well yesterday at 6.20 am (saturday) i was drivint to work in my EL FUTURA. not the gt . i was in the M5 motorway tunnel i was in the right side lane just exiting the tunnel doing 70 to 75 km/hr uphill. it was sprinkling and the road was wet . as you exit the tunnel you are travelling up hill on a left hand bend . i was in the right lane and had a distance of about 4 car lengths to the car in front .to my left was a car travelling the same speed as me about 1 car length in front of me.he was tailgating a high truck .anyhow the car in the left lane accelerated and changed lanes right in front of me obstructing my view ahead as he changed lanes he braked for a split second i assumed the traffic was slowing ahead and started to brke too but to mysurprise inoticed he was slowing quite fast so we'd just exited the tunnel so the road became from dry to wet,oh no trffic jam i was on the brakes already but because he had cut in front of me no room to stop he's wheels locked up so did mine. i dont know how but for somereason his car was hauling up faster than mine his car xf . my car el with abs and tyres almost new . go figure anyhow no where to go now i braced for impact and hit the back of his car at about 40 kms an hour his car went airbourne and to the left back in to his lane and straight into a concrete wall and my car stopped about 1 metre from the car that was origionally in front of me as would have if he didn't change lanes. no one was hurt . i nice muslum woman was broken down in this right lane and standing on the road. becuase my car being the 3rd one back from this one knocked the 2nd one to the left the woman was not hit . i couldnt believe no one was hurt . both my car and his needed to be towed away his was mashed front and back write off . mine about $4000 dollars i'd say or maybe write off.( value 7200) my insurance company is queerying who is at fault on this one. what do you think .?????
he cut in front of me and had to suddenly brake hard causing a collision . i had a safe distance to the car infront of me and he cut in . there was nothing i could do to avoid this.
i have always kept a more than reasonable distance to cars in front of me as a result of rear ending someone 20 years ago as a p plater. never had an accidnt since .but people in traffic always change lanes and fill the gap .
now my method of reasoning has failed me completely keeping a safe distance behind the car in front . has brought me down just as much chance of having an accident as a tailgater. spewing .

well today i found out that both insurance companies are deeming us both at fault .i'm so glad that the other driver is liable for his part ( causing the accident in MY VIEW) i was so worried that being the car at the back that i would have to be deemed at fault and him get off scott free. especially if he caused the accident. i shouldn't even be deemed at fault . but because no witnesses stopped its one story against the other . he is claiming he didn't change lanes and the accident was completely my fault . so i amm happy to wear my own damages although don't agree i should have to don't really have proof . just glad he has to wear it too.

deesun · 25-10-2005, 05:44 PM

You are lucky because as you said it would normally be classed as your fault. The insurance companies have obviously found some holes in the other blokes story, what difference will it make to your insurance/excess now?