For anyone interested: HID and LED lighting info

ilsautomotive · 17-10-2005, 09:54 PM

G'day all,

This won't be everyone's cup of tea, but is directed at those who have been asking me about aftermarket lighting options. Yesterday I finally got around to taking a proper pic and video of my Eunos which includes HID headlamps and lots of LEDs in other functions.

Background
The incandescent bulb still has a place, but is essentially a very primitive means of illumination. From memory, the filament in a bulb is heated to over 3000 degrees celcius, making it more of a heater than a light. As evidence of this, an LED light bulb for the house that I am testing provides similar light to a 40 watt incandescent... but consumes 1.6 watts! In an automotive application, the practical benefits can include reduced alternator load, reduced heat-related fading of reflectors/lenses, increased light output and faster illumination.

HID headlamps
High Intensity Discharge - using an arc of light rather than a glowing filament - is not new technology, being used in applications such as street lamps. However, until the past decade it was not used in cars due to the long 'warm up' period. In recent years, aftermarket HID kits have become readily available. Some are made by companies of questionable repute, though major makers include Philips. The kits include the replacement bulbs, known as capsules, as well as ballasts to ignite and run the lights.

HID capsules use similar wattage to regular headlamp bulbs (approx 60 watts) when first turned on, but soon settle down to 35 watts or so. The light output is pure white by default (4300 kelvin), though can appear blue from some angles depending on the projector. Ricey HID capsules are modified to give a very blue light - 6000k or more - this means reduced output and should be avoided.

The term HID is abused by makers of blue-tinted incandescent bulbs. These give a more white colour temperature but produce more heat and inevitably have a reduced overall output. Also, a genuine HID capsule in a non-projector (reflector) headlamp will be dangerously blinding to oncoming traffic. Projector-style headlamps (such as the NA Fairlane and ED XR low beam) are much better, though for optimal results one should retrofit projectors from a car with standard HIDs.

LEDs
LEDs are also a long-standing technology that has only recently become commonplace in luxury cars, including the current Holden Statesman. In a stop light application, the safety benefits are obvious because illumination is instantaneous. At highway speeds, it is claimed a car travels 8 metres by the time an incandescent brake light illuminates fully. Owners of large trucks have rushed to retrofit LED tail lamps because they generally last much longer - as long as 10 years straight. Unlike incandescents, LEDs handle rough treatment and are not harmed by frequently turning on and off.

Many enthusiasts in the US have successfully replaced their tail lamps' innards with a Printed Circuit Board (PCB) of LEDs with stunning results. It is important to use 4-pin superflux LEDs which are much brighter and more suited to automotive use. For a simpler option, aftermarket LED bulbs are a direct-fit replacement for incandescents and can be colour-matched to the lense they will shine through. However, some shine in one direction only, resulting in a small circle of light. Better bulbs, like the 24-LED 'matrix', partly illuminate rearwards towards the reflector. The best model currently available, known as the 'light tower', contains up to 20 superflux LEDs, most of which shine towards the reflector. It is expected that a new standard again will be achieved when companies like Osram release their long-awaited replacement bulbs.

Only one wedge-bulb replacement LED (also called matrix) is recommended for general use; again, the majority only shine forward. As with all aftermarket HID and LED retrofits, legality is a question mark but issues are unlikely if the job has been done properly.

The Project
In addition to late model tail lamps, front indicators and aftermarket clear side indicators, all exterior bulbs on the Eunos have been replaced. Lightly blue-tinted incandescents are used for fog lamps and high beam; silver-coated front indicator bulbs look 'invisible' in the clear indicator housing; a Philips 4300k HID kit, originally from lavalighting.com, is used for low beam and functions well with the stock projectors.

Brake lamps are 24-LED bulbs which were good for their time, but completely outclassed by the 'light tower' 20 superflux LED rear indicators. 'Matrix' 5-LED wedge bulbs are used for side indicators (amber), front parkers and rear number plate lights (white). Interior lighting has been left alone as the warm incandescent colour temperature cannot yet be matched by white LEDs, which look somewhat blue.

Currently in the works are 18-LED light tower reversing lights and a PCB of red LEDs to replace the innards of the high mount stop light, and I may well contemplate full PCB LED tails for the EA based on what I will have learned from that project.

Rear video (don't mind my cousin; about 1.4 mb)
http://ford.i8.com/tmp/DCP_4562.MOV

If anyone has any questions on this fast-evolving area I'll be happy to help. Enjoy!

LUXO_8 · 17-10-2005, 09:59 PM

well said jack..
i cant wait till i get my E46 genuine HID projectors

...

looks fairly good, possibly just a little too glarey for my liking........

i'd like to see a photo of your cut-off

ilsautomotive · 17-10-2005, 10:15 PM

Cheers Wayne, I look forward to seeing your set-up. I have just taken a pic now of the cut-off. It is definitely sharp but isn't going to match a factory set-up, nor do I want to spend any more money on it. :P

LUXO_8 · 17-10-2005, 10:17 PM

thats a pretty damn nice cutoff for factory projectors.....awesome stuff..

if you get time, could you do it again from about 20 meters back from a wall.???
doesnt matter if you cant...

ilsautomotive · 17-10-2005, 10:27 PM

The guy who sold me the HID kit had such a pic, I'll try and track it down for you. Cheers.

spope · 17-10-2005, 11:27 PM

How have you gone with the difference between park light illumination and stop light illumination?
I am assuming the eunos is supposed to run a dual filament bulb.
That is my only concern about using led stop lamps.
I was planning on doing some experimentation with resistors to get the park light illumination a little dimmer, but never got around to it - the led lamps are in my glovebox.
Nice work on the HID headlights though - roughly what did that set you back?

ilsautomotive · 18-10-2005, 11:11 AM

The difference between low and high remains a weakness of the 24-LED bulb. I've been using the same bulbs in the Laser for probably a year and the key is to avoid using the park lamps or headlamps when it is daytime. They illuminate to 100% when the brakes are pressed during the day (compared to about 60% for dual filament incandescent) but to their detriment, they are too bright when just the parkers are on and don't have much more to give.

The other way I am going to address this is updating the 3rd stop light to something much more drastic. This is a pic of my 'under construction' mod for the Laser and later the Eunos:

It can be cut in half so it will be 8 x 2 superflux red LEDs - pretty darn bright. If even this isn't enough, the light towers are available in 1157 and supposedly have improved on this issue, but they are very expensive at US$20 each. My EA already has an aftermarket NF Fairlane-style LED third stop light as it didn't have one at all from the factory.

Meanwhile my friend in the US has responded to Wayne's request - pics are below. He paid US$500 for the Philips kit from the very reputable lavalighting.com, including a 5 year warranty. I bought it off him for US$300, knowing the capsules have a very long life. The only way I'd be able to realistically fit this to an EA would involve ED XR headlamps which I'd rather avoid at the minute.

edit: One other point to make is that because an EA has 4 instead of 2 brake lights, a very effective option would be having 24-LEDs for the inside bulbs and incandescents for the outers. It would look a bit funny but you would get the best of both worlds.

LUXO_8 · 18-10-2005, 05:43 PM

thats exactly what i wanted to see, thanks jack..
looks pretty good for what it is, but using a propper HID projector would sharpen the line between light and darkness immensely....

i'll try and dig up a pic of a propper HID projectors cutoff so you can see what im talking about
will edit and add pic later....

matt.young · 16-04-2006, 04:06 PM

im looking at some HID Bulbs and it says on the site (edit: yes it is ebay!) the input power is 65/55W, output power is 110W/100W and color temperature is 5000K. would this be ok for the trusty EA? just wondering cause i read somewhere that the reflector can go brown and ИИИИty if they are too hot.

cheers

chich · 16-04-2006, 05:27 PM

A friend of mine fitted a HID kit on his Alfa (reflector headlight) and had to angle the beam as low as possible to avoid blinding people. Apparently there are two types of HID globes - D2R and D2S if i remember correctly. One is suited to reflector and the other to projector type headlights. I wouldn't mind fitting some decent zenons to my EF as the lighting can be described as ordinary but i'm not too keen on loosing my high beam capability. Apparently there is a way around this but i havn't really bothered investigating it further..

Me thinks Ford need to get their act together and start offering optional zenons..

ilsautomotive · 17-04-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt.young

im looking at some HID Bulbs and it says on the site (edit: yes it is ebay!) the input power is 65/55W, output power is 110W/100W and color temperature is 5000K. would this be ok for the trusty EA? just wondering cause i read somewhere that the reflector can go brown and ИИИИty if they are too hot.

cheers

ohh wait a minute... you had me there! I think you may be falling for the oldest scam of them all. They are conventional bulbs with a blue tint to give a whiter output with a more HID-like colour temperature. The output will effectively be reduced by the tint and the temperatures go up (as does damage to reflectors and risk of melted wiring). The bit about 100w output is an outright lie.

I use tinted 'Autotecnica' H4 bulbs in my Laser and they've served me very well. They only tend to fail prematurely for people who do a lot of night time driving, thus have them on long enough for their heat to cause them to self-destruct. But they are not to be compared to HID. Proper HID would not be safe in an EA headlight because the reflectors won't be up to the job. An NA Fairlane or ED XRx would be more suitable as they have at least basic projectors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

A friend of mine fitted a HID kit on his Alfa (reflector headlight) and had to angle the beam as low as possible to avoid blinding people. Apparently there are two types of HID globes - D2R and D2S if i remember correctly. One is suited to reflector and the other to projector type headlights. I wouldn't mind fitting some decent zenons to my EF as the lighting can be described as ordinary but i'm not too keen on loosing my high beam capability. Apparently there is a way around this but i havn't really bothered investigating it further..

If the beam is angled to the ground, the output would probably be worse than stock. I think you're right about the globe types, but there is no vehicle to my knowledge which comes from the factory with a HID/reflector set-up. It simply isn't safe. The D2R etc bulbs in the aftermarket kits are 'rebased' to make them fit into a normal (H3 etc) bulb socket. This is fine, but the stock projectors are less than optimal, and reflectors border on dangerous.

Check if the EF uses dial filament low beam bulbs (someone said it didn't?). If so, some bulbs use a form of shutter to simulate low/high beam modes - these are known as bi-xenon. The best ones allow flashing of the headlights by leaving the HIDs on for a safe period after the flash, but blocked by the shutter. Flashing HIDs the old fashioned way is a quick way to blow them up within seconds.

If the EF simply uses a single filament low beam, you will still have high beam because that is what the second globes are for. But you still have to consider that a projector set-up - ideally a proper retrofit or at least EF XR headlamps (?) - will still bring safer results.

The bottom line is that to do this properly and safely is a substantial job, but the end result is something one can take great pride in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Me thinks Ford need to get their act together and start offering optional zenons..

Sad but true. You have to look at a regular mid-size car like an Accord Euro Luxury to see how far behind the local makers are. No new Aussie car of any money offers much more than an XE in terms of lighting technology.

But they've done their market research, and there's no point spending money on technology that the buyers don't care for!

chich · 20-04-2006, 09:24 PM

The EFs are dual filament - i've changed enough globes to know

My mates a bit of a wizz when it comes to this sort of stuff, he also mentioned about the shutter that effectively gives you high beam capability. Zenons in the EF can definitely be done, just a matter of time before someone does it!

LUXO_8 · 21-04-2006, 06:35 PM

jack, just thought i'd post a pic showing my cut-off.
specs are BMW E36 projectors with a aftermarket HID kit.

compared to what ive seen on a lot of kits, the cut off is quite sharp...
its a bit on the blue side (8000k) wouldnt mind trying a pair of 6000 or even 4000k capsules to just see the difference

anyway pic is here

ilsautomotive · 21-04-2006, 06:41 PM

Nice one Wayne! So they are non-HID projectors too? Doesn't look too blue in the pics, often the colour is affected by the projector as much as the capsule. 4300k is the brightest though.

Chich, I stand corrected re dual filament. I would absolultely love to see someone do this mod, but be warned of the cut-off issue, which is virtually unworkable with reflector headlamps.

I've seen late model Corollas with ultra-blue (probably 10,000k+) HIDs shining through their reflector headlamps. Because so much light is reduced through the colour change, it isn't that blinding... but it's a far cry from the true factory-style HIDs...

LUXO_8 · 21-04-2006, 06:43 PM

yeah jack they're non HID projectors, which is why i am so suprised at how good the cutoff is......

there ARE selected Mercedes benz and a couple of lexus headlights which have HID reflectors, they're the only 2 makes ive come across though..

ilsautomotive · 21-04-2006, 06:52 PM

Nice one Wayne! Maybe the HID version of the projector isn't so different? I stand corrected regarding the HID reflector - it's certainly a rarity.

Speaking of Lexus, I might as well post this here. A few days ago I got the exciting news that my favourite car is going to be the world's first with LED headlamps. It features 3 LED projectors per light.

The LS600h L (hopefully coming next year) has a big list of other astounding innovations for the class... hybrid-electric 5.0 V8, AWD and continuously variable transmission to name a few.

AJM · 16-10-2013, 12:58 PM

Obviously a well old thread, but hopefully someone might still pick this up....

I want to upgrade the XB headlamps, lenses, blubs etc... Only relatively new to the whole 'HID' world of lighting. What would be the best way/set-up for the beast?

Are these 55w HID light/lens/ballast kits available on ebay any good? OR alternatives...

As always, lots of rules and regulations to follow and I'm pretty interested in keeping the rozza away (as we all are) so I'm happy to go by the book as much as possible, without spending several hundred...

Cheers all,
Adam