Mullaly confirms Falcon and Mustang to share platform from 2016 - Page 18

SteveJH · 05-03-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Apparently the next Mustang will not continue with the overly retro styling of the current model. It will feature key Mustang elements, but be a very fresh, up to the minute design.

I'll believe it when I see it. However if it wants to compete in Europe and elsewhere against the other sports coupe's I don't see how they'll have much choice but to modernise it. Including IRS and a modern interior (current one looks like something out of the 90's).

Dr Smith · 05-03-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I'll believe it when I see it. However if it wants to compete in Europe and elsewhere against the other sports coupe's I don't see how they'll have much choice but to modernise it. Including IRS and a modern interior (current one looks like something out of the 90's).

J Mays has openly stated they have done "retro" long enough on the Mustang and indeed the next all-new Mustang will take on a more contemporary look.

Road_Warrior · 07-03-2011, 01:19 AM

Having just completed a camping trip this long weekend which was almost 800klm round-trip, I was reminded why the RWD Falcon is so good at what it does and why a FWD biased replacement for the Falcon will be lame.

It's solid RWD platform gives the car the finesse and dynamics to soak up whatever the road environment throws at it. All that with 3 adults in the car (with all their stuff) towing a camper trailer with the air con on full time (heat wave be gone!) and it never lost its cool, never put us into a brown pants moment on a high speed bend or with overtaking (no stupid speed wobbles or understeer) and what's more, it did it comfortably and was relatively easy on the juice considering the load it was put under. I felt in complete control all the time and I believe that the Falcon's thoroughbred RWD platform gave me that reassurance.

Suffice to say I simply can't see a FWD replacement for the Falcon being capable of this. Indeed if I wanted a V6 Camry, I would go buy one knowing full well it wouldn't be able to do the job as well as my Falcon does.

**Polyal** · 07-03-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

J Mays has openly stated they have done "retro" long enough on the Mustang and indeed the next all-new Mustang will take on a more contemporary look.

I think the first generation retro mustang now looks average, but the 2011 looking brilliant.

When they try and change the mustang they stuff it...so I am happy with the slow evolution method.

Ohio XB · 07-03-2011, 06:48 PM

The article said that Derrick Kuzac stated that this would be the first time there was foreign design influence on the Mustang, but that is wrong, and Derrick seems to be sharper than that. The Mustang II had design influences from Ghia of Italy, which it had just acquired at the time...

...Ford decided the styling issue still hadn't been fully resolved. Lee Iacocca, by now Ford's president, set up a massive styling competition comprised of several Ford and Lincoln-Mercury production and advanced design studios, also including Ghia of Italy.

http://www.mustangii.net/reinvented.asp

I hate to say it, but with the dismal production numbers of the Falcon I don't know how much longer Ford would let that go on. All sentiment aside, from a business standpoint, the Falcon cannot go on as it is. I don't mean that the Falcon would be killed by Ford. It has name recognition, history, and national pride, and all of that takes lots of money and time to accomplish. However, even with these elements it is not selling what it needs to be. There's going to have to be a change. I don't know what that needs to be, but what's happening now is not working, and there doesn't appear to be any improvement in sales on the horizon.

Making it into a global platform is a change. I want to say that because I don't want to sound all doom and gloom. This is the change I hope will happen.

Steve

tezxr8man · 08-03-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Especially if we built it here.

Does this mean Mustang will grow, or Falcon will shrink?

Edit: We must remember Henry Ford's former estate in Dearborn. It has a role to play here, too.

Hopefully falcon will shrink, change the perception of being a big gas guzzler and make it perform better, with all the small cars getting bigger they don't need to as well

**Polyal** · 09-03-2011, 08:55 AM

Steve...for me a falcon based on a global platform is really the answer.

The devil is in the detail. I think foa are more than capable of the development work for a grwd platform. It comes down to styling to keep some jobs here because it could be dangerous to assume a global sedan will work here and hold the falcon name.

Id be happy with global platform and componentary, with a localized body style and interior. That way we keep our heritage so to speak, but fall in line with one ford aswell....that's the best case outcome for me other wise we will loose to much and the poo will hit the fan....but as you say, that's business.

Ohio XB · 09-03-2011, 07:03 PM

Polyal, I hope the Falcon is used as the basis for GWRD. No reason not to, even if it is different from the current platform.

Steve

Bossxr8 · 10-03-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

Hopefully falcon will shrink, change the perception of being a big gas guzzler and make it perform better, with all the small cars getting bigger they don't need to as well

You can pretty much guarantee it will have a nip and tuck in terms of size. They should be able to take a little bit from here and there to help reduce weight, and if designed smartly enough it should still have the same interior space, but still be a big car, just not as big as it is currently. Switching to a V6 will allow them to reduce bonnet length and bring the firewall forward to create more room.

I don't know how it will work if they use a Taurus platform as the Taurus is bigger than Falcon yet smaller inside. And switching to FWD on a Taurus platform is pointless as a way to increase economy as the Taurus is heavier and would use more fuel, especially in the AWD versions which are even heavier and use even more fuel due to increased driveline friction. Unless its on an all new smaller Taurus platform which can address these issues.

The days of cars continuing to grow in size is over, manufacturers will start to reduce size model by model to reduce weight and emissions.

I think Holden have already hinted they will make the 2014 Commodore a little smaller.

FPV GTHO · 10-03-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't know how it will work if they use a Taurus platform as the Taurus is bigger than Falcon yet smaller inside. And switching to FWD on a Taurus platform is pointless as a way to increase economy as the Taurus is heavier and would use more fuel, especially in the AWD versions which are even heavier and use even more fuel due to increased driveline friction. Unless its on an all new smaller Taurus platform which can address these issues.

Surely that would be the case, as both cars will need to be updated in the next 4-5 years, if not sooner funds permitting.

Buntz · 21-03-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

The article said that Derrick Kuzac stated that this would be the first time there was foreign design influence on the Mustang, but that is wrong, and Derrick seems to be sharper than that. The Mustang II had design influences from Ghia of Italy, which it had just acquired at the time...

...Ford decided the styling issue still hadn't been fully resolved. Lee Iacocca, by now Ford's president, set up a massive styling competition comprised of several Ford and Lincoln-Mercury production and advanced design studios, also including Ghia of Italy.

http://www.mustangii.net/reinvented.asp

I hate to say it, but with the dismal production numbers of the Falcon I don't know how much longer Ford would let that go on. All sentiment aside, from a business standpoint, the Falcon cannot go on as it is. I don't mean that the Falcon would be killed by Ford. It has name recognition, history, and national pride, and all of that takes lots of money and time to accomplish. However, even with these elements it is not selling what it needs to be. There's going to have to be a change. I don't know what that needs to be, but what's happening now is not working, and there doesn't appear to be any improvement in sales on the horizon.

Making it into a global platform is a change. I want to say that because I don't want to sound all doom and gloom. This is the change I hope will happen.

Steve

Is Ford NA aware of the lack of advertising Falcon gets?

What's the news on the IRS Mustang?

Bossxr8 · 21-03-2011, 04:06 PM

They are well aware of FoA's sales and marketing failures, that why they sent Eleanor Ford out here 3 or 4 times last year to help them fix it, as she's one of the top sales and marketing execs.

Buntz · 21-03-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They are well aware of FoA's sales and marketing failures, that why they sent Eleanor Ford out here 3 or 4 times last year to help them fix it, as she's one of the top sales and marketing execs.

Then a big marketing campaign must be happening soon. Coz of late. All I've seen is a focus, fiesta, mondeo add... about Ford 'sipping less petrol'. But what virtues of local products are shouted about by Ford?

JC · 21-03-2011, 04:30 PM

Everything old is new again. Considering that mustang was born from the falcon (US) platform........

FG XR · 21-03-2011, 04:34 PM

Agree entirely. Falcon lacks the advertising of it's competitors. All I see is focus, mondeo I think because of the fuel they use. Holden has sidi 900kms Which we know is BS but nothing on falcon and how good the i6 or 5.0 coyote?

Loved the au adverts comparing the falcon to the commodore and how the falcon was much better. Where are those adverts?? I can only remember an fg XR ad with people waving their hands out the window. wTF? Seriously.

Bossxr8 · 21-03-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Then a big marketing campaign must be happening soon. Coz of late. All I've seen is a focus, fiesta, mondeo add... about Ford 'sipping less petrol'. But what virtues of local products are shouted about by Ford?

I wouldn't count on it.

But in saying that apparently Fords communications department has had a big influx of new staff due to the big year of releases they are having, so at least they realized they need help getting the message of new products out there.

Eleanor may have helped them with ideas and strategies for the releases of new Territory, Focus, Ranger etc.

Buntz · 21-03-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro XR6

Agree entirely. Falcon lacks the advertising of it's competitors. All I see is focus, mondeo I think because of the fuel they use. Holden has sidi 900kms Which we know is BS but nothing on falcon and how good the i6 or 5.0 coyote?

Loved the au adverts comparing the falcon to the commodore and how the falcon was much better. Where are those adverts?? I can only remember an fg XR ad with people waving their hands out the window. wTF? Seriously.

Exactly. I only read it in a magazine ad. Ford bragged about how Holden released this new SIDI 3.0... and the Falcon was still more fuel efficient, without any changes at all. That would have made a great TV ad.

Don't Ford realise that just staring at Falcon while they decide, and not continuing to update, and market it, will not help them make an accurate determination of it's success?

Ohio XB · 23-03-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Is Ford NA aware of the lack of advertising Falcon gets?

What's the news on the IRS Mustang?

I would imagine that Ford NA knows exactly what is going on with advertising in Oz. Mulally has a weekly meeting with the heads of all the Ford regions every Thursday. This has been happening since he arrived.

I have not heard anything on IRS in the Mustang. Doesn't mean they aren't working on it.

Steve

barra265t · 23-03-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Exactly. I only read it in a magazine ad. Ford bragged about how Holden released this new SIDI 3.0... and the Falcon was still more fuel efficient, without any changes at all. That would have made a great TV ad.

Don't Ford realise that just staring at Falcon while they decide, and not continuing to update, and market it, will not help them make an accurate determination of it's success?

What if we all chip in and make our own ads for the Falcon and put them on prime tv.

Buntz · 23-03-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra265t

What if we all chip in and make our own ads for the Falcon and put them on prime tv.

Bloody great idea. You start working on a few scenarios.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I would imagine that Ford NA knows exactly what is going on with advertising in Oz. Mulally has a weekly meeting with the heads of all the Ford regions every Thursday. This has been happening since he arrived.

I have not heard anything on IRS in the Mustang. Doesn't mean they aren't working on it.

Steve

Have you tried Google? The internets be filled with IRS+Mustang articles.

I'd be interested to know what Mullaly thinks about Ford of Australia's marketing or lack thereof. And what he thinks about Mustang and Falcon possibly coming together.

**janddbone** · 23-03-2011, 04:42 PM

I have said GRWD can and should be done. Including different variants; LHD and RHD, it could find 250,000 sales annually. Easy, particularly with Ford replacing all the large size, Mercury and Volvo sales etc. with other Ford branded models.

The likely list of viable large car names is a long one:

Falcon, Mustang (Base, Chev, Hyundai, Mitsubishi.)

Torino, Gran Torino (Mid, VW, Toyota, Honda, Nissan.)

Fairlane, Thunderbird (Luxury, Chrysler, Buick, Volvo, SAAB.)

Crown Victoria (Fleet, Special Order, Police, etc.)

Plus appropriate LINCOLN's..... (Premium, Cadillac, Audi, BWM, Mercedes, Jag.)

Then you also work out bodystyles, Sedans, Wagons, Coupes, Ragtop, Utes.

Bossxr8 · 25-03-2011, 07:15 PM

Ford sold Volvo and are shutting down Mercury.

Buntz · 25-03-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford sold Volvo and are shutting down Mercury.

I think he means up against. But yeah. Mercury is already shut down.

**janddbone** · 25-03-2011, 08:58 PM

Yes, that's my point. They also sold and closed sales respectively. Mercury used to be their mid range in the USA, now they need to extend the Ford brand into the area. Volvo is obviously competition now. (However good or bad that idea was, is open for another discussion.) My main point with all of it is that one platform with 250,000 sales easy, is worth doing. Remember, that just 3 years ago Mustang did 150,000 sales itself.

Buntz · 25-03-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_br_johnstone

Yes, that's my point. They also sold and closed sales respectively. Mercury used to be their mid range in the USA, now they need to extend the Ford brand into the area. Volvo is obviously competition now. (However good or bad that idea was, is open for another discussion.) My main point with all of it is that one platform with 250,000 sales easy, is worth doing. Remember, that just 3 years ago Mustang did 150,000 sales itself.

In the two markets it sells... not including imports. 300 million Americans, and 32.2 million Canadians. Suddenly Falcon sales don't look too bad.

**janddbone** · 25-03-2011, 09:13 PM

I don't think you can compare a sports coupe and a sedan/sports sedan/wagon/ute (Back in 07/08) for market saturation anyhow. Ford RWD sales in Australia are good as a percentage. 50,000 in a market of 1,000,000 is 5%. Imagine Ford RWD with 5% in the USA!!!

Once again I am talking about the sales for the platform as a whole. There is no way it cant makes sense...

Buntz · 25-03-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_br_johnstone

I don't think you can compare a sports coupe and a sedan/sports sedan/wagon/ute (Back in 07/08) for market saturation anyhow. Ford RWD sales in Australia are good as a percentage. 50,000 in a market of 1,000,000 is 5%. Imagine Ford RWD with 5% in the USA!!!

Once again I am talking about the sales for the platform as a whole. There is no way it cant makes sense...

Either with a platform share... or huge tech/underpinning share. Plus R&D. Huge savings to be made.

**Fordman1** · 26-03-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Either with a platform share... or huge tech/underpinning share. Plus R&D. Huge savings to be made.

Won't happen RWD Falcon is dead ...

FPV GTHO · 26-03-2011, 01:07 AM

The question has always been about sorting out whats most important first.

America needed a small car, they got the Fiesta - Done

Ford needed a global small car, Mk3 Focus - Done

Ford needed a global pickup truck, T6 Ranger - Done
--------
Ford need a global family car, CD4/EUCD2 Fusion/Mondeo - 2013??

Ford need to fix Lincoln - ???

After that, everything is just chasing gravy and anything RWD and sedan will fit somewhere between there and Lincoln's revival.

tranquilized · 26-03-2011, 01:33 AM

Many years ago I completed a university marketing degree. I've never actually used it and worked in the industry so I'm far from an expert, and would never claim to be.

But...

One lesson I remember - all products have a life cycle. It can be traced over a curve which relates directly to sales. Once a product reaches maturity sales decrease until the product reaches the end of its life cycle and is discontinued.

The Falcon has reached the end of its life cycle.

Anyone who cant see that has their head in the sand.

We have a few years (at best) of production of this uniquely engineered car left.

Unless your mechanically minded or an enthusiast, why would you buy a Falcon? Its a three-box-sedan design which absolutely no one wants anymore, and isn't exactly bristling with the mod cons that most buyers expect these days. Pains me to say, but outside our small circle, the Falcon has no reason to exist.

Best advice for the enthusiast on a budget: Buy a Falcon while you still can.