TJ Magna Advance vs BA Futura

blueoval · 13-07-2005, 09:26 PM

Sorry if this has been posted before.

The reason why I have asked is because, Im tossing up a decision to buying a wagon but Im at 2 minds as to which brand. Now I know 95% of the people on this forum will be biased, but for those of you who aren't biased, I need your constructive advice:

A bit of background info on reasons; I need a wagon for carting a 100kg electric wheelchair in, and to carry a full car load of people often. This happens multiple times a week, and and continues to happen in all road conditions. The car will need to have excellent traffic manners, and be able to plough up a hill with ease and it not constantly wanting to kick back and forth into gears while air con is running. While I am not doing this duty, I like to drive spirited, and enjoy driving something that can hold it's own. Ultimatly, it needs to commute heavy loads without major issues, and be reliable. The 'must have' features will need to be cruise control, dual airbags, power windows & cd player, Oh and needs to be tiptronic auto.

Resale issues aside, Which one and why?

02-03 TJ2 Magna Advance wagon

OR

02-03 BA Futura wagon

*Shav puts on flame suit and waits for replies*

b2tf · 13-07-2005, 09:29 PM

Id go Futura for simple grunt. It has more than the Magna so if you dont want to be dropping back gears to get up hills etc, it'd be the pick for me.

blueoval · 13-07-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Id go Futura for simple grunt. It has more than the Magna so if you dont want to be dropping back gears to get up hills etc, it'd be the pick for me.

Thats true, but aren't the Magna's lighter which would negate the issue of torque?

b2tf · 13-07-2005, 09:55 PM

Yup Magna is lighter but its not just about torque. Magna is just not at the same level of overally performance as the Futura Wagon - it doesnt have the immediate 'power on tap' like a Falcon does, or dare I say it, a Commodore.

My personal opinion is that Magnas are for comapny cars, because they dont have anything special, just enough to keep you moving. If your circumstances dictate you need large stowing capacity, as well as the power to move whats in the car and do it well, its a no brainer.

Futura has everything you listed - power windows, airbags, CD, cruise etc. Im sure Magna does too but Im not too familiar with their specs.

Also remember resale in the magna will drop again when the new one comes out. Same can be argued for BA though I guess.

blueoval · 13-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Yup Magna is lighter but its not just about torque. Magna is just not at the same level of overally performance as the Futura Wagon - it doesnt have the immediate 'power on tap' like a Falcon does, or dare I say it, a Commodore.

My personal opinion is that Magnas are for comapny cars, because they dont have anything special, just enough to keep you moving. If your circumstances dictate you need large stowing capacity, as well as the power to move whats in the car and do it well, its a no brainer.

Futura has everything you listed - power windows, airbags, CD, cruise etc. Im sure Magna does too but Im not too familiar with their specs.

Also remember resale in the magna will drop again when the new one comes out. Same can be argued for BA though I guess.

You make some valid points. However, Im not worried about resale as they are both bad in my books. Though the Magna's are worse if your trying to sell one. I plan to keep this next car I buy as a long term thing.
As I see both the BA and Magna as a 'ex-fleet' vehicle, I view them in a similar light.
I just need a something unbiased to sway me in the right direction.

b2tf · 13-07-2005, 10:16 PM

Yeah sorry, i read your original post after i posted mine and saw the bit about resale. My bad!

Without sounding too biased (and Im trying not to be), in terms of equipment, performance and looks, the BA is the better buy. No doubt youve seen the interior of the BA, the Magna looks bland and ugly in comparison.

The BA has much, MUCH more potential for mods if you choose to go down that route, even simple things like mags etc.

The BA is bigger inside than the Magna (I think)? It certainly looks to be.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-07-2005, 10:32 PM

Let me see...

RWD vs. FWD for starters...

To be really honest there are alot of things the Magna falls behind in... The Technology used in the BA far surpass that of the Magna and for memory the Falcon wagon gets alot better safety rating (thats if you worried about that aspect).

The Magna is a boring car to drive and really doesn't offer that much when compared with the BA, some might say theres more build quality but I wouldn't totally agree, you have the same issues and faults with a Magna as you will with a Falcon, they are built basically in the same conditions, and things will unfortunately go wrong..

If it was me it would be the BA without a second thought.. everything about it is better if you take all the information presented by magazines and motoring journos into consideration.

MrSparkle · 13-07-2005, 10:36 PM

Considered the Territory? Sounds like it would suit your needs pretty well...

Smoke Pursuit · 13-07-2005, 10:50 PM

I was going to say that to Mr Sparkle, but price maybe a factor!

blueoval · 13-07-2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Let me see...

RWD vs. FWD for starters...

To be really honest there are alot of things the Magna falls behind in... The Technology used in the BA far surpass that of the Magna and for memory the Falcon wagon gets alot better safety rating (thats if you worried about that aspect).

The Magna is a boring car to drive and really doesn't offer that much when compared with the BA, some might say theres more build quality but I wouldn't totally agree, you have the same issues and faults with a Magna as you will with a Falcon, they are built basically in the same conditions, and things will unfortunately go wrong..

If it was me it would be the BA without a second thought.. everything about it is better if you take all the information presented by magazines and motoring journos into consideration.

Yes, many have said the FWD vs RWD is a deciphering factor to consider, how ever, when would you notice either one being a dissadvantage over the other?

Safety is a concern for me as I will be transporting an invalid man with the wheel chair with me.

I agree with faults being the same in each car, however the recent thread of people no being happy with the BA has shocked me a bit and made me think harder before deciding. On the other hand, I have been surfing the net and have asked a few people on the aussie magna forums the same questions here. Both the FF.com.au and AMC.com clubs have biased but good points to make, but none of the comment have made me sway either way.

As far as comments made by magazines, I have heard all sorts of opinions and thoughts on both aspects of vehicle.

Im still in 2 minds as to which to choose.

blueoval · 13-07-2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Considered the Territory? Sounds like it would suit your needs pretty well...

I like the thought of the Terri, but as Shockwave has mentioned, beyond my price range.

Dave_au · 13-07-2005, 11:20 PM

haha this thread looks familiar, could have seen it on a mitsubishi site!

I guess the Magna would drink less fuel but you could get the BA LPGed.

Magna plastics for the interior are probably a little better than the falcon, but the Magna design is 1997.

I've got a TJ2 Sports in my driveway for a variety of reasons at the moment (not saying I'd say no to an XR6/XR8!), I guess one at this stage was the bang for your buck factor - the advance would have climate control, 8 speakers cruise and all that. Mine is ex government and I picked it up for a steal.

Even better if you see the Sportswagon grab it - 163kw/5sp tiptronic.

Both the Magna plant and the BA 6 are regarded by the press as very good engines.

You really need to go and drive both these cars, there have been some complaints about the speed of the Magna's steering before, but that is more of a personal preference thing.

B.J(inCanb) · 13-07-2005, 11:27 PM

Do you want to carry adults in the back seats? I have 3 teens (adult sized), we went and test drove all the wagons about 18 months ago. The Falcon was the only one that we could consider, the others including the magna were just too narrow across the back. Also measure across the load space and make sure you have enough width, not just at floor level but up higher where the glass starts as some narrow in far more than others.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-07-2005, 11:38 PM

To be honest with you Blueoval, you really have to look at this from the prospective of what you need and whats going to be good value with the amount of money you spend... The Magna as you know may be cheaper, but in the long run if you want a car thats going to do the job and do it easy then the BA is the go.. And dont let a few dozen problem cars scare you away... We are on our 3rd BA 4th if you Count my Dads SX Territory Ghia and to be honest the issues I have had have been minimal and easily fixed at each regular service interval.. Ive never really had to take a car into the service department to have a problem fixed thats caused the car not to function as it should, things like power windows and handbrakes are going to play up occasionally, but overall these cars are workhorses, and the BA 182 is a much much better finished off motor then the Magnas... You can pick up 2004 BA Futura wagons from the auctions for about 22k at the moment, thats with 30,000 kms.. These cars retail for around the 40k mark once put on the road and delivered at retail pricing, so they are bloody good value for what they are..

Unless your getting one for a bargain price, say around 14 grand for an 03 plate Wagon then I'd stick with the Ford!

Biggoggs · 13-07-2005, 11:47 PM

Take a look at http://www.redbook.com.au/vehiclesea...MITS03DL&veh=y
for the RedBook spec comparison

Quote:

Yes, many have said the FWD vs RWD is a deciphering factor to consider, how ever, when would you notice either one being a dissadvantage over the other?

Looking at your sig, I would've thought you knew the difference to most of the above questions

Heck, if you only have to haul around one dude, you could get anything. If Ford have continued the tradition, the Falcon's doors should open up quite wide (80' at least). The Falcon is a bigger (space), more powerful (carrying), safer, and by the sound of it, more comfortable car. Heck, if budget is a major concern, you could get an older long-wheelbase Fairmont or LTD, which has more space than the wagon with creature comforts to impress the oldies (although not as versatile as the wagon).

If you carry many elderly people with wheelchairs around all week, you might even want to look into a minibus.

blueoval · 14-07-2005, 12:15 AM

cheers for the replies fellas. much appreciated.

Dave - yeah, I recognise you too. :P
A test drive of both and a measure up of the interior differences will decipher a stronger decision.

B.J. - I will be taking 3 full size adults in the back on a regular basis. The Liberty I have does the job, but it does it not very well or comfortably. This will be something I will look closer at.

Shockwave - Once again, many sound points. Im not disagreeing with you at all, just looking for the valid points to suit my needs as mentioned. So far Im starting to lean toward the Ford, but continuing to research my findings.

Biggoggs - It's not just one dude I have haul around, its the whole family of full size adults that I will need to accomodate for and comfortably. As I may have stated before, I really havent had a closer look at either of the cars yet in regards to space and refinement so Im currently going on your personal experiences and findings. A minibus is outta the question! Geez, Im not carting mentally handicapped people around just a man who cant walk properly, myself included.

Essentially, everyone has raised considerable points for me to consider and address, and as the time continues, I will take close note of the points given. keep the opinions rollin.

Dave_au · 14-07-2005, 01:12 AM

Rear seat room in the sedan gets a bit compromised by 6'2 foot giants sitting in the front, I'd say this is one of the significant causes of concern you might want to keep an eye out for. It may not be such an issue in the wagon however.

blueoval · 14-07-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Rear seat room in the sedan gets a bit compromised by 6'2 foot giants sitting in the front, I'd say this is one of the significant causes of concern you might want to keep an eye out for. It may not be such an issue in the wagon however.

Thanks Dave,

A sedan is out of the question. The wagon is what I need to look at.

If I was looking for a sedan, I would seriously consider a WRX or XR6. That essentially would be a whole different kettle of fish.

Citric GT · 14-07-2005, 02:57 AM

I've always been pro Falcon AND Magna so what I say is my unbiased opinion...

If you want performance and space get the Falcon. The Falcon engine has far more power and torque across the entire rev range and is rear wheel drive. Note that the weight difference is only around 80 - 100kg.

If you want want a better quality car, get the Magna. I've owned a TF exec and a TJ sports and the build quality and refinement is leaps and bounds ahead of any model of Falcon to date.

If it was me, I'd get a Falcon simply for the fun factor that is part of high torque rear drive.

Matt

14-07-2005, 08:05 AM

I have a TJ VRX and my sons are both over 6' as I am and when we are all in the car, it is pretty cramped, so for that reason and possibly that reason alone, I would recommend you get the Ford. For all other reasons I would get the Magna, so I may not have helped at all.

Dave_au · 14-07-2005, 10:39 AM

The TL Magnas apparently have a deeper rear seat to create more legroom in the back.

blueoval · 14-07-2005, 09:27 PM

TL's are ugly.

Interesting synopsis Citric. Essentially room and power are the key aspects to this decision, but I dont want the car falling apart on my either due to quality issues. I need the room but mainly for the passengers I take.

**Captain Stubing** · 14-07-2005, 10:47 PM

I've always found that front wheel drive cars are higher maintenance, if you don't keep the wheels regularly aligned, you're chewing out tyres quicker than a RWD, plus you have CV joints to maintain/replace. Maybe there's more to maintain to keep 'steering drive wheels' balanced.... After owning a few FWD's, I'd sway towards the RWD, if all other factors were equal.

Dave_au · 14-07-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

TL's are ugly.

Yeah, thats what I thought, but the VRX TL with the colour coded headlights has grown on me quite a lot recently.

That aside, please let us know of your decision, I'd be quite interested with your results. I dont really think reliability, build quality, fwd or parts will be the determining factor here - I know of quite a few companies that use magnas as their "courier" fleet. Infact I'd be willing to say a higher proportion of Magna sales are to fleet customers than the falcon, and the value for money is quite high given the poor resale thanks to heavy discounting from MMAL.

But at the end of the day, I think that your decision will be based on the back seat room alone.

blueoval · 14-07-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Yeah, thats what I thought, but the VRX TL with the colour coded headlights has grown on me quite a lot recently.

That aside, please let us know of your decision, I'd be quite interested with your results. I dont really think reliability, build quality, fwd or parts will be the determining factor here - I know of quite a few companies that use magnas as their "courier" fleet. Infact I'd be willing to say a higher proportion of Magna sales are to fleet customers than the falcon, and the value for money is quite high given the poor resale thanks to heavy discounting from MMAL.

But at the end of the day, I think that your decision will be based on the back seat room alone.

Yes you could be right, and also the fact could be that I still have had blue blood in my veins ever since the EB :alien2:

I just want to know that I will getting the best for what I spend. BFYB essentially and that does all the things I need it to. Ive still yet to sit in the back seat of a BA wagon, so I'll keep you informed as to what I think.

15-07-2005, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

I've always found that front wheel drive cars are higher maintenance, if you don't keep the wheels regularly aligned, you're chewing out tyres quicker than a RWD, plus you have CV joints to maintain/replace. Maybe there's more to maintain to keep 'steering drive wheels' balanced.... After owning a few FWD's, I'd sway towards the RWD, if all other factors were equal.

Got 80,000 k's out of my first set of tyres and now 65 k's from the next and haven't had them rotated apart from dealer service, again, rear seat room should be the only reason you would buy the ford, I'm passionate blu oval but not to the detriment of sensibility.

blueoval · 18-07-2005, 09:02 PM

What your opinion of this car as a possibility?

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Deskt...ias=carpointau

**Falcon Coupe** · 18-07-2005, 10:15 PM

Blueoval i was in the market for a secondhand wagon 2 months ago, i looked at all the cars you have including the one above, after much research i bought an 03 BA wagon,
value for money is great, $20,500 with 60,000klm cargo barrier towbar and tinted windows, i looked at the subaru sports wagons but apart form being small, they ask 10k more for an older wagon than the falcon with over 100,00klm on the clock, how long will the four cylinder last compaerd to the six ?
Have you driven a BA wagon ? if not, do yourself a favour and testdrive one, i love it.

Dave_au · 18-07-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

What your opinion of this car as a possibility?

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Deskt...ias=carpointau

30G for a five year old forced induction 4 cyl..... only scooby could pull that off.

blueoval · 18-07-2005, 11:09 PM

:hihi: yeah I knew I was asking a bit much for the Forrester. :P

Never the less, you make some interesting points Falcon Coupe, as I am having trouble with room as it is with the Liberty wagon. The engines however are second to none. I am very happy with it, but as you already know, very gutless in the 2L guise.

Dave, I do realise it is typical for Subaru to ask that rediculous amount for that car. But it looks so horn I had to post the link.