Increase in costs *after* work has been done - opinions, please!

[Neeek]

I'm using a cars as a kind of metaphor here - I have the exact same situation but completely unrelated to cars, so opinions, please!

You entrust some work to your mechanic on your car. He quotes, you agree to go ahead based on that quote (which was priovided in writing and you signed-off on) and the work is done satisfactorily.

After the work has been completed, the mechanic sends you a letter stating that his original quote was a little off the mark, and he would be most appreciative if you could pay an additional 30% on top of the original quote (which you paid some time ago) to cover the extra costs he incurred.

Now, as far as I'm concerned, I've paid for the services, I'm satisfied with them and the deal has been done - that's it. Surely if costs were exceeding the original quote, then it was the "mechanic's" responsibility to make me aware of the potential rise in overall costs BEFORE the work was completed - right?

My initial reaction is to tell him to get stuffed. Thoughts, please.

[Hawk]

My initial thought is that yes, you are well within your rights to only be charged the quote that you have both agreed on. This is only my thought though on how it should work, I don't know if it is how the world really works.

[Black XR6]

I would be inclined to agree. but if you do take that line dont expect to go back to that mechanic again.

If there were additional costs over and above the quoted amount they should have been raised at the time the bill was paid at the latest. Anytime after this is unacceptable.

Since we are on the subject I am going to have a small rant. What happened to mechanics actually ringing you if costs go up? These days they dont like giving you written quotes, and even when they do the price can still go up. They dont tell you until you pick the car up. Also, what happened to mechanics actually ringing you to tell you the car wont be ready today. Several times I have had one of my cars at a mechanic for a job that should take a day and they never ring to let me know it will not be ready until I ring them at 4:30pm.

Case in point. I got a cam put in my GT and was told at the start it would take one day as they didnt have much on. I wait and wait and finally call in at 4:30pm and am told it wont be ready today as they were too busy. The next day was same deal, not ready no call. It took them three full days to do the cam change when they told me one originally. After getting it back from them the car was chewing oil something chronic. In the order of 5litres over 100km drive. I took it back to him and he flatly denied anything he had done could have caused this issue. He said "its and old engine". I later found out he hadnt tightened the intake manifold tight enough and the air leakage was sucking oil into the cylinders and burning it off. Its damn hard to find a good mechanic.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Neeek

I'm using a cars as a kind of metaphor here - I have the exact same situation but completely unrelated to cars, so opinions, please!

You entrust some work to your mechanic on your car. He quotes, you agree to go ahead based on that quote (which was priovided in writing and you signed-off on) and the work is done satisfactorily.

After the work has been completed, the mechanic sends you a letter stating that his original quote was a little off the mark, and he would be most appreciative if you could pay an additional 30% on top of the original quote (which you paid some time ago) to cover the extra costs he incurred.

Now, as far as I'm concerned, I've paid for the services, I'm satisfied with them and the deal has been done - that's it. Surely if costs were exceeding the original quote, then it was the "mechanic's" responsibility to make me aware of the potential rise in overall costs BEFORE the work was completed - right?

My initial reaction is to tell him to get stuffed. Thoughts, please.

Tell him you agreed to the contracted figure and thats what was done.
A contract is a contract. You have it in writing, theres nothing he can do. Nor should he. If he cant quote an accruate figure then thats his problem to be honest.

[cs123]

maybe he's has just been invoiced for the materials and got a shock. You should probably ask for a full explaination before deciding. You probably want to think about your relationship with this tradesman going forward.

If he was a decent honest type then personally, I would consider paying. Your call really...

[Black XR6]

cs123. If he got an invoice for the parts and got a shock, he should have rang for the parts cost prior to finalising the quote.

[bindi]

Nope, if you've signed off on it, it happened a while ago now, and the guy agreed too, nothing else to it. Not your problem.

Talk to the Dept of Fair Trading.

[parawolf]

a quote is an estimate. Use another example - re-siding a weatherboard house.

Obviously there will be removal of existing boards, disposal, new boards (raw cost), board prep and painting.

Now, if the carpenter or whatever quotes $x. But during the job needs to redo some structual work, this is where it gets hazy. If I call 1/2 way through explaining this and costs will go up, ask for a new estimate and proceed. I'd expect to pay $x+y

If the guy bills me for $x, even doing the extra work, then a couple of days later, asks for $y, then i'll prolly tell him to go jump because the transaction is over.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by ianmcginley

a quote is an estimate. Use another example - re-siding a weatherboard house.

Obviously there will be removal of existing boards, disposal, new boards (raw cost), board prep and painting.

Now, if the carpenter or whatever quotes $x. But during the job needs to redo some structual work, this is where it gets hazy. If I call 1/2 way through explaining this and costs will go up, ask for a new estimate and proceed. I'd expect to pay $x+y

If the guy bills me for $x, even doing the extra work, then a couple of days later, asks for $y, then i'll prolly tell him to go jump because the transaction is over.

very good explanation there. if the tradesman doesn't get permission to do the extra required works for a new price than you have no obligation to pay extra. Just be careful they are finished before refusing to pay or you might get a narky tradesman doing the dodgy with the work :

I've given up getting quotes from my mechanic 'coz he is never right, and his work is second to none......i'll just bear the actual costs.

[xdc351]

I'd tell him to stick it too. The work has been done according to the quote you signed and paid for without argument from him.

If I get a bonus potato cake from the local fish and chip shop today, do they have the right to charge me for it tomorrow?

As has been mentioned, speak to the dept of fair trading and for gods sake let us know how you go!

[Black XR6]

exactly ianmcginley. In your example the tradey should have quoted $x for best case scenario. Then told owner it may be more depending on what he finds. And when he finds something he should immediately tell the owner of the new costs involved. Not after the work is done and the bill is paid.

[Neeek]

Thanks for the replies - I would like to point out/remind that I'm not actually talking about a mechanic here..! The only mechanic at fault on MY car is me... lol

[Black XR6]

Yeah, but the principal is the same. The dept of fair trading will have the same rules for all governing quotes.

[Neeek]

I think my next port of call is to check the original quote I signed off on to make sure there's no "we reserve the right to..." bobbins.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Neeek

I think my next port of call is to check the original quote I signed off on to make sure there's no "we reserve the right to..." bobbins.

Once you have paid a bill that has been tendered as a job completed, there is no more arrangement between you and the service personal.

Thats it, end of contract, game over.

[Black XR6]

which is probably the case.

Next time ask for that clause to be struck from the contract and watch them squirm

[blue fairy]

I think it depends on what additional work was required.
I would think about this, and if I was happy with the work, and the end result was good and I was aware that extra parts or time was needed, then I would seriously consider paying the additional monies.

If not the whole 30% certianly a percentage that would be aggreed upon by myself and the company involved.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by blue fairy

I think it depends on what additional work was required.
I would think about this, and if I was happy with the work, and the end result was good and I was aware that extra parts or time was needed, then I would seriously consider paying the additional monies.

Ah but this is not we are being told. We are told that he was asked for more money after the bill was paid! And it was sent to him, not spoken to him at time of tendering the bill.

[Full Noise]

I’m pretty sure that under the Trade Practices Act the particular person / Tradesman must inform you of any difference in the quoted / estimated price up or down unless you’ve given the go ahead by signing an authority to carry out such work, regardless of the price. If you read the fine print on the work order it will usually say this buried in there somewhere, although they still must comply with the Trade Practices Act.
Give the Trade Practices Commission a call and they will give you definite answer.

Cheers, Danny

It is much worse if there is a dispute over a bill prior to paying.

I understand the repairer has more rights in that case. ie not letting the car leave the premises until full payment is provided!

Some mechanics rely on this to overcharge at the end of the job and add extra costs above an beyond what was quoted, hoping you wont dispute them because of the extra hassle. You should consider that the mechanic is relatively honest (or at least desperate for you job) in that they didnt automatically add 30% to the quote.


O

[Brute33]

While I agree with the notion a quote is a quote and thats what you've signed , then thats it , put yourself in his position and then think about what you think is fair.
I'm a tradesman and i've been in this guys shoes and got done over when I quoted to refurbish a machine. The customer wouldn't and didn't give me an extra cent and so I went on my way , learning from my mistake . 6 months later he decided he wanted to do modifications on the machine and needed drawings . Those were the most expensive drawings he ever had to pay for , and funnily enough his concience obviously got the better of him , because he didn't even have the balls to ring me himself to ask .

My point is sometimes its worth being fair and equitable as it will go along way later on if you need him again.

[b2tf]

Ok,

I will assume that you are talking about building work here? If not, i may be a little off with my explanation but i'll give it anyway.

I work in the building industry, specifically in new Kitchens (see sig). The way the business i work for operates is that we go through your options, custom design a kitchen for you, and if you are agreeable to the design we go ahead with it. If not we change it etc etc but thats not the issue here.

Before any work is carried out, we have them sign 2 contracts. The first is with us as a company, basically saying that we are doing your kitchen, and we expect payment to be finalised by a certain date. It also says we will install on x date too, and details what we will be supplying and doing/not doing.
We do not actually do the work, we only design. From there, we have contractors who we use to install the new kitchen, remove the old kitchen etc etc.

Now, the point is, if our installer goes to pull out an old kitchen, does so, and then finds further work that must be done (a common example is rotted out floorboards from leaking plumbing), we stipulate that we MUST do this and it will be added to the cost of the job. Obviously where we can, we quote on this first so you can decide to go ahead with all of it or not, but it does happen that you'll be halfway through removing the old kitchen and find something that has to be done.
It has to be done for 2 reasons:

* To cover us, so there is no chance of the client coming back in 6 months time and saying 'my floorboards are stuffed and you have to fix it'.

* Secondly, because if we don't, we can be fined and open to legal action etc for not maintaining the job to Australian standards.

Basically, we have to do the best job we can, and we quote on this, but sometimes it is unavoidable that further costs will arise. 99% of people understand this and are ok with it, there are a few who get shitty about it but that is why we go through every last little detail of the contract with them before they sign it. Once they do, it's a binding document and we get paid at least a certain percentage of the job costs.

So, the point is, that while it is a right royal pain in the *** for all concerned to have costs arise that werent in the initial quote, in certain circumstances it is unavoidable, and unless you want a considerable fight from the other party concerned (we are a business, we need to cover our costs and we cant return or undo the job).

[Yaw]

Without knowing specifics we are all just ****ing in the wind.
If you had a written QUOTE (that is a price that the work is to be done for the job and parts listed) anything outside of this has to be at mutal agreement.

If on the other hand it was a written estimate that is an entirely different story and prices may fluxuate.

However upon Payment and completion of the deal you have agreed the work is done and he has agreed the work is done and been paid for accordingly.
any extra expenses are on the shoulders of the person or company providing the service if not taken into account at point of sale.

If though, at point of sale the service provider has said something and you have said no I will pay what I was quoted, check and see if the account was infact finalised or there was an outstanding amount, that being the case the service provider has simply taken a part payment of the final bill. If your bill states paid in full the service provider has not a leg to stand on.

[parawolf]

But all increases are off once the bill tendered to the customer is paid in full. End of contract, game over.

I used this to my advantage about 3 years ago.

I ordered a computer and paid cash for it immediately once a quote was drawn up. It was quoted with a high level of configuration.

2 days before I was to pick it up (when it arrived in store) I was told the charge was going to be an extra $1000 because they mis-quoted (used a different manufacturer part number memory which was not physically compatible - but works in other models). I called the office of fair trading, and they said because the quote said the parts were to be all "geninue ManufactureX" to the configuration I specificed, and it was paid in full the retailer had two options. Since it was not delivered "recind" the offer and fully refund the money, or sell it to me at the quoted price.

I told this (apart from the recinding the offer) to the retailer manager and I got my laptop.

Fair Trading said if they had supplied the laptop(read service) and I had paid in full, it was their problem in mis-quoting and not updating me early enough about the price/configuration change.

[davocol]

I tend to agree with everyones comments above, she has given the lap dance and you have paid for it she has no right to ask for more money after she quoted you the original figure. I mean the mechanic has no right

[BlueRaven]

Well... seeing as though this is an open question.

Mechanic - I doubt your going to be asked to pay before it happens, purely because the cost may rise. If you did, then it sucks to be the Mechanic.

Lapdance - She has every right to ask for more money if it went over the time the was originally allocated in the previous quote (especially if she preformed services on your request that were not listed in the original quote)

Conveyancing - Again, if services were required that were not originally quoted then I see no reason why they shouldnt ask for an increase.

You would expect to get more pay if you unexepectedly had to work overtime would you not?

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

You would expect to get more pay if you unexepectedly had to work overtime would you not?

Yes but say you submitted your overtime timesheet, get it paid, and then the next month try and submit extra overtime with last months date. Accounting wise, its a nightmare, and your manager would haul your ***. Besides it isn't quite the same.

You cannot be expected to fork out more money once a contract has been finalised - otherwise what is the point of a contract?

[Thornie]

if a mechanic quotes you a price and then it happens to big dearer then he must contact you same as if you need extra repairs done

i dropped my xf off at my parents mechanic for a new sump and a new sump only. After a week my car was ready along with an extra $500 dollars worth of work done and no phone call to tell me the work was going to be done.
In the end it end up costing me a $1000 athough i didnt have to legally pay my mum made me pay :( but i got him back after i had my new motor built, i sent it in to him to get it all running cost over $300 to have it done and 3 years later he still hasnt been payed

[bluovl]

I was quoted $5000 by a concretor to lay a slab for a shed I was building. The soil turn out to be a lot shittier when the foundations were being dug and a lot more work was needed to be done to ensure a a good foundation. The concretor came to me and said the bill had increased to $6500 (due to the unknown of the soil beneath).
I hesitated in paying the extra $1500 but after thinking I eventually paid.
I could see his point of view that he gave the best estimate he could without digging the entire 50 x 25 area before the work commenced.
It was a hard thing to cop the extra expense than what was quoted but I realise if the concretor had had stuck to his original quote and supplied a less than satisfactory base, I would have been even more ****ed off.

Sometimes you have to use a bit of judgment.

Dale

[Stav]

You entered a binding agreement to have the work done at an agreed price. The work was completed and money finalised the contract. If you pay him any more money you are killing off your rights and giving him a right to keep sending you bills.A prior course of dealings can screw you hard. Ignore him..who is he? John Howard??